Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: How would you assert the value proposition of personal portraiture and photography right now when everyone thinks that they can take an awesome picture with their iPhone? What do you say to that? Or those who believe that those experiences are superior than a trained photographer?
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Well, you know, there are great cameras out there today. The technology has made it very easy.
The retouching has made it very easy to go out and shoot. And, I mean, some stuff, it might be great. I mean, what we're called to do is really to do it on command and to illustrate a little bit more specific, difficult stories on command. So that's where I think the value add comes.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Unscripted. I am Zanetta Tunicum Power, and I am here with Stuart Cohen, and I'm very excited to learn more about his business. What's new and what's next. And the best introductions are often given by the person themselves. Tell us a little bit more about yourself, Stuart.
[00:01:04] Speaker B: Well, thank you.
Well, thanks, Zanetta. Thanks for having me.
So, just so you all know, we had a little connection issue, and we finally got together, and we're. I'm excited to talk to you.
I live in Dallas, Texas. I'm a Canadian film director and photographer, and we have a boutique production company that creates content for marketing companies, advertising agencies, and the like.
And my. My specialty is I work with people. It's all about people. Whether it's a celebrity, a real person just off the street, a pharma ad, an athlete. Doesn't matter, as long as it talks back to me.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Hey, that's awesome. On a previous episode, I had a photographer who focuses on real estate, so definitely not people.
And that aspect of photography is very important. There's so many different arenas that you can delve into. So how did you get started in photography?
[00:02:02] Speaker B: I got started by. Well, I. I mean, I've been doing this since college, so I worked.
I was drawn in by a guy who actually turned out to be one of my mentors who came to my university, and I went to University of Texas undergrad, and he showed his work, and it was shot all over the world. Great colors, interesting people, and I thought, wow, that's. That looks like fun.
And so I worked as an apprentice for years and for a couple of different people, and then kind of hung my own shingle out and started shooting on my own. And after that, I went back to film school to start to do live action. So I started doing commercials, like, way back when, and ever since, you know, I was trying to do the live action and the stills. And now of course everybody needs both. So it works out perfectly for me.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Awesome. And I love how you mentioned the integrated needs that exist right now between having still and motion, videography and, or photography depending on, you know, the device that you're using. So how have you grown in being able to manage all of the different needs that exist in this age of digital and AI when it comes to photography?
[00:03:24] Speaker B: Well, I think it's a mindset and I think we all, all small business owners probably have the same mindset, is that you adapt or die.
And part of it is I like change.
Maybe not as much as it's coming so fast, but you know, evolution of technology is great.
Evolution of the way we do business is great.
And I've always been one to try to stay up with it. Not necessarily the bleeding edge, but definitely on the front edge of it. And yeah, and I've just continually innovated and tried new things and experimented and I do a lot of work that's not client related, that's not client driven. So we're always shooting something and we do that. So we, we're always experimenting and trying new things and trying to stay ahead of what's coming next.
I also, through another long story, I do own and manage a license media licensing company. So it's like a stock photo agency kind of like, I mean probably most people know Getty or something like that. We're smaller, smaller being we still manage 30 million digital assets like stills and video and that we have available for licensing for people that don't have the budget or the time or the need to actually go out and do a full on shoot, do it full on production so that way we can offer them existing work and that they could get at a price that really fits most budgets.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: I love that.
Not just music licensing, that was the first thing that came out of my brain because of my background in the entertainment industry, but content licensing. Right. It's all the same.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: It's, it's same stuff except we do, we do, we do visuals, we do video and stills. And of course there's music as well.
Music is harder, I think we don't touch that.
And it's more expensive. Well, I mean there, there are places as you know that you could get tracks to lay under videos that are not expensive. I mean once you get into arrangements and singing and stuff like that, it's different. But yeah, yeah, but yeah. So you know the difference. I mean there's like a, there's a crazy dichotomy now like if you come from music, licensing your own work. It used to be at a certain price all the time and now the prices are all over the place. So I think, you know, as creators, we need to figure out where we want to be in the market and maybe maybe address multiple markets, you know, maybe there's a different offering for a different market.
[00:06:18] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, let's take a few steps back. And we know that you are a photographer and we've gone into really dove deep really quickly into the types of photography that you're an expert in and your background. But I would love to just break bread with you as an entrepreneur.
So how long have you been an entrepreneur and as a small business leader, what have you learned along the way that's really keeping you steady and thriving right now?
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Well, I think that's an important question actually. And I think the challenge of being in a creative business and why so many of them don't last is that it's a real balance of how do you manage the business versus the creative. And I think that goes for any small business.
I think I'm wired. Luckily, I think I have a good, I think genetically I just got lucky in that I have a creative side, but I also have a very fiscal minded side and a business side. And I've always kept my eye on the business and appreciated the fact that we're in business. I mean, personally I consider what I do a personal service business. So it's a people again. It's just like people, it's relationships. Do people come back? You know, it's easier as you know, the old saying goes, easier to keep a client than to find a new one. So we always make sure we take care of our clients. And I think running a business has changed a lot.
It has gotten, people say it's gotten easier. I think a lot of things have gotten streamlined.
So say for instance, early days you used to need to go to the photo lab to get your film developed. Well, we don't have to drive back and forth five times a day anymore. So that's great, you know, but there's so much you think of what AI has done, you know, because everyone's talking about AI. Yeah, it definitely helps us, but it helps us back office, do a lot of back office stuff easier and maybe that allows us to be more efficient.
But I think that's something I've continually watched and I think as any small business owner, you need to continually watch the bottom line. You need to continually try to understand how companies operate and how they succeed or actually it's good to know how companies falter also because that's a lesson taught. You know, I don't think you need to be an accounting whiz. I definitely think you need to understand your profit and loss sheet and to be able to go through that on a monthly basis and understand, you know, what things are costing and.
Yeah, and I think it's being in a small business.
Being in a small business some days, it's not always great day, you know, like fiscally. And I think that's something that it's a men. It's a mental state also. Like, we could have a month that's a down month. We could have three months that are down months. But, you know, hopefully I try to put away for those months to smooth it out and to understand. And now I've been doing it long enough that I kind of know the sky's not falling. There will be a tomorrow. It might not be tomorrow, it might be next week. But again, I think you need to understand the ebb and flow of industries and I think you need to read a lot and yeah, that's, you know, I think that. Does that answer your question?
[00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. And it also lends me the opportunity to ask you, once you left university and you had the initial exposure to December aside to delve into photography, did you. Well, I think I answered my own question by saying that out loud. It sounds like you wanted to have a photography business or was it something that you enjoyed and it became a business? What was your path there?
[00:10:19] Speaker B: That's, you know what? Nobody's ever asked me that question. I think it's a great question and I don't know how to answer that except I come from.
My dad was a small business owner, my stepfather was a small business owner, and I never knew any better. And you know, we, I grew up in Canada and it wasn't as. There weren't as many big companies, or at least it didn't seem that way.
Like most of my friends, you know, their dads were small business owners or taxi drivers or salesmen or, you know, so I didn't come from a lot. And you know, when you come to the United States, you know, and you meet people whose parents, you know, had worked for whatever, IBM or, you know, Boeing, and it's a different mentality and I didn't grow up with that. So I think I thought you had to be in your own business and I just didn't know any better.
And so I thought, okay, well, that's what you're supposed to do. And, you know, there have been plenty of times in my career that I stopped and thought, hmm, maybe having a job might have been a better thing, you know, But I get over it.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: And some entrepreneurs are made. It really depends on the economy, seemingly.
[00:11:40] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I wouldn't have it any other way. I do. I do love. I think I would thrive in a big corporate organization as well, Although I've never had the opportunity. My wife says I wouldn't. She said, yeah, no, you'd be fired in like a week.
But I don't think so.
I like to keep people. We have a pretty decent sized staff here. And again, I like. I like everyone's ideas. I'm really the kind of guy that I manage.
It's not my way or the highway. It's what's best for us.
And people come in with ideas. And I'm hope we have a morning meeting every day or every two days and we talk about things and people throw out ideas and it's like, hey, that's a great idea. Let's try it. You know, and. Because I think things change all the time and, you know.
Yeah. And I think you need to be open to evolving.
And it's funny, there have been people who have worked here that, you know, they don't evolve as fast. It's like, well, this is the way we used to do it. I'm like, yeah, but I think we got to start looking for a new way because there's a better way, so. Or the different way.
[00:12:52] Speaker A: Well, we know that entrepreneurs wear many hats. And already we've talked about the service itself. Being a photographer. We've also talked about fiscal management and also team management. Outside of you actually taking photos, which I know is. It is what you love the most. What is something that you love the least but had to grow into as an entrepreneur.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Ooh, okay. Well, so the amount of time just to back up a bit, the amount of time we spend on set, whether we're filming a commercial or doing a still shoot, is it's small amount of time compared to the amount of time running a business.
It used to be more like, I think we used to shoot more days for less money, less production, and I enjoyed that early in my career. I enjoyed being out a lot.
And as the jobs get bigger, of course there's more pre production and it just. There's more time in between projects.
So what do I like least?
I'm okay running the business. I really enjoy running the business. I'm sometimes slow at certain things that don't need to happen immediately and they pile up. So I guess I could call myself a little bit of procrastinator. And then when I get, I know you have to get to something and then it just seems to take so long.
[00:14:21] Speaker A: That's so relatable.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah. And actually just today.
So like I was saying, if we're not shooting jobs, we're usually shooting something that a self assigned project that you know, will find models, we'll build sets, and it costs money to do that. And then I do nothing with them. So actually earlier today I was going through some stuff and I'm looking at it. I'm like, oh my God, this has been sitting on hard drives for like two years. This is great. And you know, it's kind of like you spent money to do it, you know, so you think about a small business and if you think about like, so if you're built making product, say you're making clothes and you're manufacturing blue jeans, but you're not getting them to market for two years, well, that's not really a smart small business owner.
So I will, I'm guilty as charged on that, on that front. And part of it is just there's only, I mean, there's only so much time in a day and I enjoy working and I work a lot and.
But yeah, at the same time it gets away from me.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: How would you assert the value proposition of personal portraiture and photography right now when everyone thinks that they can take an awesome picture with their iPhone?
What do you say to that? Or those who believe that those experiences are superior than a trained photographer?
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Well, you know, there are great cameras out there today.
The technology has made it very easy. The retouching has made it very easy to go out and shoot. And yeah, I mean, some stuff, it might be great. I mean, what we're called to do is really to do it on command and to illustrate maybe a little bit more specific, difficult stories on command, you know, so that's where I think the value add comes. I mean, I love just doing portraits of people and that's really fun. I've never done that for a living. You know, we, we've, we've done a lot of portraits of famous people that we get called to do. And, and that just like doing it on command, that's like, oh no, you have four minutes, you know, so you have to be ready with three setups, the lighting all set up in each one, and you're going boom, boom, boom, boom. And, and everyone's smiling still. And that, that's a success.
Whereas, you know, Joe, average guy with his iPhone or a little camera, that would be a harder thing to accomplish for them.
[00:16:50] Speaker A: Yeah, there's definitely a different utility in each type of photo and who you go with to shoot that photo. As we were. Stuart and I were talking earlier to our listeners out there and my background includes pageantry. And a good pageant photo is not cheap.
And so you cannot do that on your cell phone. So knowing who to go to, who can match that style, who has an eye for editing and can really put you in the best light is something that's truly invaluable.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: And I want to know more about your pageant world.
Was it how long did you. Yeah, you're still doing it?
[00:17:26] Speaker A: Yes, currently I'm international Miss Georgia 2025, 2024 and Miss Georgia Global Continental 2025. So looking forward to a new title in 2026. More to come on that. But my pageantry experience started in my in high school, actually. I was Miss Michigan or, excuse me, Ms. Riverside park, competing in Ms. Teen Michigan in 2004 and actually spent some time as a pageant director in my 20s and just recently returned back to the pageant stage in this stage of life. So it's been really fun to just get back into the school swing of things with women that are like minded and just really empower a community with our platform. So pageantry has a great fulfillment to all the other work that I do.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: I think that's great. And of course, you know, now next time I'm in Atlanta or next time you're in Dallas, we have to do a little photo shoot.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: Awesome. I have family in Dallas, so it'll give me something to do other than.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: And then we'll film you, we'll interview you talking about it, and we'll get. And then we'll get some good B roll. Yeah, it's like, you know, Zanetta, the movie.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: I love that. I knew when you mentioned you were from Canada and I'm originally from Michigan that we will have an incident.
[00:18:47] Speaker B: We grew up with snow.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: Oh my God.
Well, I would love to ask you, you mentioned earlier the importance of constantly reading. And as an avid reader, I have over 210 books at home. And so for myself and other listeners, what are some books that you love, whether it's about business or anything else, what has inspired you over the years that you would recommend to someone listening to us today?
[00:19:11] Speaker B: Well, that's really good.
I'm gonna go for a genre, actually, because, you know, I read.
So my reading today, like there's the quick read action books. I love biographies. And then I read a lot of, I still read a lot of trade media and newsy things. Cause I like to know what's going on and I think, I think that's also important. And I'm just, I'm going to deviate for a sec.
Like I ended up, I don't know, I guess I was probably like not, you know, I don't know, in my late 30s or something, reading the business section of, you know, like newspapers or something that are local paper and then a national paper. And I did that because it interested me. But at the same time you also see, hey, you know, like XYZ is moving to Dallas. Or you know, you see, you know, there's, there's a, you know, there's stuff you see that I've acted upon and it's gotten us work or you understand it when you get in a conversation with clients, especially when I was younger, and you get in a conversation like you're, you're, you're photographing or filming a CEO and you know, you can carry on a conversation with them. I think that was really, really important for me. And I still enjoy it. I still just, it's really interesting just to see the, you know, how the business world works.
Personally, I love biographies. And I don't know how I got to love them, but I just love them because you get somebody else's story and you see where they came from and where they got to and what the path was.
And I usually enjoy biographies, like the earlier part of people's lives, like until they got, you know, whether it's famous or wealthy or whatever, like just say Richard Branson had a great one.
But you know, by the time he started Virgin Airways or Virgin Records, I mean, I had read enough because I was really interested in how did he come from being a kid on the street to building that. You know, I found that to be really fascinating. Like how do people get there? I mean, once they're, you know, like big time movie stars or big time business people. I mean that it's a different, it's a different part of the story. But I really enjoy the origins of people's lives and how they got places. And this is going to sound morbid, but I will say it.
I don't know if you've ever seen the obituaries in the New York Times and there's a whole book they come out with every year with obituaries and basically what it is, it's like articles about people who unfortunately, of course, just passed on. But it's their quick. It's a quick biography. You know, it's like a couple of paragraphs, like a half a page, quarter page. And you realize that the stories of where people came from and what they overcame and how, how innovative they were and how they overcame obstacles to become, you know, to cure diseases or become movie stars or start companies. It's really, really fascinating. And I think that keeps me inspired.
It really does. It keeps me inspired just to know, man, you know, the road's never over and people have come from a lot worse than I did. And people. There are people that overcome a lot and you really need to respect them. And I really do.
When I get them on the other side of the camera or, you know, film camera, I really, really respect people's origins.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: You know, I actually picked up a physical paper on Sunday. The Atlanta Journal Constitution will no longer be printing very soon, unfortunately.
But I love a good physical newspaper. And there are obituaries within, within the paper. And so it's funny you mentioned storytelling. And as a personal storyteller, I have a draft as a part of my end of life planning because I'm like, I don't think anybody can actually write my obituary how I would want it to be written because you guys were not there.
So I always encourage people to feel more comfortable. And it's not morbid at all. It's insightful to think about how you want your story to be told. And that is exactly what having a portfolio of your own photography does. I start scroll through my phone all the time, and it tells a story of what I was doing last week. It could be nothing. I could have been on a walk. But I have a picture of flowers that I took, I thought was pretty.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:23:56] Speaker A: It's just a story.
And pictures do a very good.
It's a very good method for being able to share that with others.
[00:24:05] Speaker B: It is. And I think our phones have been great. And I think, you know, I think, you know, back to what we were talking about early on about evolution of technology, I mean, it's not news, physical newspapers all the time anymore. I mean, it's rare that you, you remember when, like I fly a lot, I'm on airplanes a lot. And I remember back in the day, like an early morning flight is all these, you know, people with newspapers. You don't see a newspaper anymore. And, you know, people could be reading phones. I mean, I find it hard to read, like, long stories on phones. And it's just kind of Tedious. I do like, you know, a little bit of a tablet, you know, an iPad or something.
And. Because it's all right there anyway.
But here's the one thing I will say about old school magazines or newspapers. So you could stand there, say it's morning time and you're having a coffee and, and you're like, you're turning these pages. I mean, there's stuff like in the corner of page seven, you know, that you would never see on your phone or on an iPad, but it just caught your eye and it's kind of interesting, you know, so it's like, you know, I read anything, doesn't matter.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: I think the approach is definitely interchangeable. But there is something different about magazines.
This back here says that I'm an advertising major and I've spent many days just comparing ads. You know, how do we get the feeling or convey this message without saying anything before we put on ad copy? What are we, are we doing here? And so I am looking forward to. Because I, I see it happening, the resurgence of print media, because people are tired of their phones, they're tired of being tracked.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: I mean, I was. Do you think it'll come back? You think it'll come back?
[00:25:48] Speaker A: It's coming back. It's coming back. I believe in it.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: I was reading like I used to get, like, especially at the studio, we used to get, you know, every magazine and, you know, when I would leave to get on an airplane, you know, you take a stack of them and then you're on the plane, you're just going through them and looking at pictures and reading little stuff and leaving them.
But again, you don't see those anymore. And I just, I read something the other day about Conde and asked about, you know, how subscriptions and circulation of magazines is so far down because nobody cares anymore and everything's going online and they're actually making more money doing events than they are from their magazines now.
So it's interesting and I don't understand why, because everybody seemed to love magazines. You know, granted, that was before TikTok. So.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: Well, where else are you going to learn about which perfumes are out and rub the page on you just right.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: You're absolutely right. Absolutely right.
[00:26:51] Speaker A: Where else were you going to know the fashion trends? You, you know, it certainly widened the opportunity for other people to share their, their perspectives on these things. I think the only caveat with what I see is certain people adopting readopting print media is that it'll become more of the access. The access will switch because it Is expensive to print, as you mentioned, is more economical to just throw something on your website. But for those who are willing to spend a little bit more for versions of things, even printing their own photos, it certainly will become an access.
Equality, inequality, equality. Hopefully it's. Yeah, I believe in equal.
[00:27:35] Speaker B: But I mean, I think on the flip side, I agree with you. And I think, like, I remember, I guess it was in college when somebody would get like an Italian Vogue magazine. You know, we'd look at the fashion, like, oh, that was so cool because it was in Europe now. I guess you could just, you know, you just type it into, you know, your search bar and you could see it. But I. There was something about the layouts and the whole act of turning the page. But I guess. But hey, back to what we started talking about, Things have changed. It's evolved.
You know, I think Pinterest is amazing. I mean, I think is just.
It's just such a plethora of visuals that come at you.
It's nearly overwhelming. And it's so great. And you talk about how everyone's a photographer. You start going through Pinterest, making boards and you realize, oh, like, does the world really need another picture? You know, there's so much good stuff out there.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: That is what I think every time I'm deleting pictures in my phone. Do you need 20 versions of this one post?
No, delete.
And that is because I am from the age where we would go to the grocery store and drop off film. I only have 28 pictures. Okay, right. So I'm going to make the best of these 28 pictures. So you guys stand right there. Don't move.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: We have this. Right.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: Okay. So you know what's going on today? I don't know if you see this.
So, you know, we always have a bts, the behind the scenes photographer filming, you know, us working. Or we always get a crew picture at the end, you know, with the clients, a nice wrap picture.
And we've been doing that forever.
And then, you know when you go. When I go back through the archives and you see something or you know how like on Facebook, it has a memory from 2018, you know, that kind of thing.
And you look at. Oh yeah, I remember that job. And then you look at the clothes you're wearing and then you're like, oh, I still have that shirt.
It's making you really.
And I seriously, I looked at it, I'm like, okay, I need to really start moving that wardrobe through the closet a little more.
[00:29:58] Speaker A: My thought is Always. Where is that shirt? I said that a lot. What happened to that?
Well, before we go, would love for you to leave us with three things.
For any aspiring photographers or entrepreneur who is looking to grow their business, things you didn't know, things that you've learned along the way or are applying right now. What are your quick three takeaways for our listeners today?
[00:30:25] Speaker B: I think be very open to comments from other people. You don't have to take them all to heart, but be very open.
Go out and meet people, network, be kind.
There definitely is no place in this world for people that are, I won't use a swear word, but who aren't friendly. So be nice, be gracious, mind your bottom line.
Look around at what else is being created in the world. Look at visuals, wherever you find them. Look at movies and try to stay current with what's going on. And I think that's one way people get old, is if they. If they kind of stop looking and stop just trying to stay with it.
So that, I mean, I think that's the key thing. And I think have fun. I mean, right? It's have fun.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: All right, well, I'm a fan of having fun, but also being open to feedback, being nice, and networking. So thank you so much for leaving us with that today.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: Stuart, you know what? Thank you. This was great. I really appreciate it. And I can't wait to do the photo shoot with you.
[00:31:36] Speaker A: Well, I'm looking forward to it, so I will be seeing you soon.
And to everyone listening, thank you so much for checking out this episode of Unscripted with me. Zanetta Chuniquen Power speaking with Stuart Cohen. Have a good day.
[00:31:51] Speaker B: Thanks so much.
