Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Hello, I'm Jeremy Rivera, your unscripted small business podcast host. I'm here with Juliana Weiss Roessler, who Ressler is going to introduce herself, starting with. Let's see why we should trust her.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Okay. I've been working with small businesses now for about 15 years.
So I've seen the good and the bad. I've seen the ups and the downs. And as a small business owner myself, I've made the same mistakes that I've seen some of our small business clients make.
So, yeah, I think that's the biggest reason.
[00:00:41] Speaker A: Love it. What was the name of your company and what are some of the niches of clients that you've worked with in the past couple years?
[00:00:51] Speaker B: Sure, wr Digital marketing. So we work with small businesses and nonprofits, small and mid sized businesses, and we work across the different industries. So we've worked with attorneys. We've worked a lot in the dog space because I actually started my career with Dog Whisperer, the TV show I've. We've worked with. We have a florist we work with. We have a couple of Parkinson's nonprofits we work with. Love to do more work in that area.
So we kind of COVID the gambit. We've got a cruise company that we're working with. So we're kind of all over the map, really. The main thing that's sort of the through line between all of our clients is that we're working directly with the business owner, at least in some capacity, and so we're supporting them on this journey that they're going on.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: I think that's a great way to describe it as a journey. As a small business owner myself, it's definitely a journey full of some wrong turns and some rough water.
Um, I'm curious about the nonprofit side of things because that model of quote unquote business can be a little bit different in terms of expectation, in terms of process, or the way that you set goals to meet grants as opposed to dollars. At the end of the day, what's been your experience? How did that start? And how is navigating a nonprofit unique from running a normal small business?
[00:02:20] Speaker B: So the first nonprofit I worked with was actually when I was working for TV's Dog Whisperer. He created his own nonprofit. So that was kind of how I got my feet wet, was this fledgling nonprofit trying to figure out what it wanted to be.
And what I think is kind of interesting about the nonprofit space is that it is a business. It's a nonprofit business that you're registering. It's not A nonprofit organization, as people kind of think about it and it needs to function as a business or it ceases to exist. So I think sometimes people get kind of put the mission first, which is fabulous. But if you don't have the funds to fund that mission, then you can't keep functioning. So it is important to think about there's kind of two audiences you have to serve. There's the funders, the donors, the grants, all of those things. And then of course, obviously whatever audience you're serving, whether that's dogs or Parkinson's patients or you know, the unhoused community, whatever it is, you've got to think about the needs of both of those communities in order to succeed as a nonprofit. So it's actually in some ways more complex than a for profit business in that way.
But in some ways it's. You get access to a lot more goodwill in the community so you can mess up more.
So if you for instance, you know, if you send out two emails on accident as a nonprofit, right. People are still gonna send stick with you. Or as with a business, people might feel like, oh my gosh, that's very spammy, I'm going to stop this.
And also there's a lot of free tools available to you. There's a lot of free information available to you. So it comes with its own set of challenges, but also opportunities.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: I've definitely seen that. You know, I've worked with nonprofits and then done nonprofit things with for profit companies like Pre Task Concrete Wall company that I worked with. We set up community cleanup in the community that partnered with Keep America Beautiful, the nonprofit organization that everybody should know about. If you're a small business owner, you can contact them and get gloves and trash bags and grabbers for any size trash cleanup of any park or location that you set your sights on and turn that into visibility, turn that into, you know, submit that to eventbrite, you can turn that into backlinks, you can turn that into a press release, not to mention posted up on subreddit for the community for positive a ton of upvotes Facebook groups. So there's actually a ton of access to market I think is which is particularly interesting and valuable right now as SEOs and digital marketers need to start looking at more hybrid opportunities to do their SEO magic and certainly work partnering with nonprofits or working with nonprofits could be a lifesaver in terms of visibility.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: It's also a great team building opportunity. So if you've got a team we actually I helped organize the walk for peace here locally. And my team came out and they were part of that effort and it was just a fun team building activity because we were doing something good for the community.
And I would say, yeah, I mean, it's interesting to see how SEO in the beginning because I've been in that business for a while too. Like in the beginning, I was a copywriter in that space and it was all about keyword stuffing. Remember way back when it was all about the right ratio, keywords and all this nonsense. And now it's kind of become so much more sophisticated than that. And it's so much more fun in a lot of ways, but also so much more challenging because there's so many people trying to do the same thing that a lot of times with clients, we, even though we are called WR Digital Marketing, we're a full service marketing firm. So a lot of times we're talking to our clients about the needs to think beyond that and to think about ways they can get active in the community and get visibility that way, because that can often be more effective than anything we can do online for them.
[00:06:17] Speaker A: I'm interested in your experience because I do a lot of interviews with specifically SEOs.
So kind of branching out. What's going on right now with email marketing, social media, some of those other channels. You know, what's the bigger picture of digital marketing beyond just SEO? And we'll circle back to SEO to talk a little bit more. But I'm curious.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: So I, I love email marketing. And the reason why I've always loved email marketing is sort of the overlooked marketing channel. I think a lot of people get really obsessed with social media, but with email marketing, you have control in a way that you don't with a social media network. So if, if I'm posting something on Facebook, Facebook's deciding who's seeing that piece of content, and Facebook's deciding that we need to pay more money to get visibility on that. Right. Whereas. And then, and that's only gotten worse and worse. Like when I first started my career, if we posted something on Facebook and there were followers on our page, our followers would be shown that piece of content, the majority of them. And at this point it's like 1% of them or 2% of them if we don't spend some money behind it. Yeah, but with email, as long as you control your own email reputation and you're protective of that, then you're likely to show up in that inbox when you send an email message out. Right. And I'm not paying extra Other than the email tool that I'm using and you know, the, the vendor that I'm using to create the content or whatever to get that visibility. So even if somebody's not click opening that email, you know, somebody's not clicking on the content inside of there, you're still getting awareness because they're getting that subject line and that email address read there.
So that can be a lot. It's usually what I like to tell clients is like you're so stressed out about social media, but you're not taking advantage of this big opportunity here with email because that's where the conversions typically happen. And that's a lot cheaper for us to continue to develop that relationship over there than it is if we try to do it on social.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: I think that's a good perspective and you know, given the continuing challenges that are going to, you know, grow even higher in terms of penetrating into SERPs, you know, there's more space that's taken up by AI overviews, ads and just ranking is more difficult in general.
There's whole swaths of site that. Sites that got hit by the helpful content update, which was more about restricting what type of content and sites Google's willing to surface rather than is your content helpful?
[00:08:48] Speaker B: But 100%, yeah, we saw a client that got hit really hard by that and it was, they were producing quality content so they were doing exactly what Google said you should do.
And they got that, got caught up in that. And that's the kind of thing too that you don't have as much control over because it's just you're at the whims of this larger organization.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: So I think part of that lesson is, you know, like Chris Tweeten, he does Calgary SEO, you know, it's about leveraging your existing visibility to build a long term audience.
[00:09:26] Speaker B: Yes. And as far as we're concerned, we like to have that audience in our email list because we know that's the place where we have the greatest ownership over that conversation. And honestly, we can even take that email list. Right. And throw it into social media as a retargeting audience. And so it doesn't mean we can't use these other platforms to reach those people. But when I have the email address, I now have a way to reach out to those people that I don't have otherwise. And we've also seen increasing success with text message marketing, which is something that we're like a little bit more cautious about because it can be annoying.
So that's one of those places you have to be delicate with. But if you use it right and you're trying to be helpful, we found a lot of success with that as well.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: I think there's a value there to, of showing up to those people, you know, like with remarketing, I was talking to Jeremy Yang, ppc. You know, we did a cross, cross panel SEO ppc, but really it was, you know, that value proposition of showing up in remarketing is almost the main way that you want to spend your PPC dollars. You know, like if you have that audience, then take that and you know, leverage that and you know, you have to kind of treat it as a separate methodology of, of advertising because then you can treat it as your, your capture audience and you might have, you know, different messaging from them for sure.
[00:11:04] Speaker B: Oh definitely, definitely. Yeah. That existing relationship is so valuable. And also like, you know, it takes six to eight touch points, as I'm sure you've talked about on this podcast with many people before, you actually get that sale. And so that retargeting audience helps you get that consistent connection in front of people.
Whereas if you're starting to do something cold, it's not going to be as effective as cost effective, that's for sure.
[00:11:31] Speaker A: Turning to the small business side, somebody is working with a precast concrete walls again.
They started and they were optimized towards just Florida when their SEO was first done a couple years ago.
Their CEO is now, you know, adamant, hey, we want to do this nationwide. What is it that you look towards as different from being a regional player, a local self, and then trying to show up across America?
[00:12:13] Speaker B: So I personally love when clients want to go local because it puts us in a smaller pool of competition. So we typically work with companies that are trying to be in our local area because of that. So in terms of SEO too, I prefer when we can be focused on a specific region.
But that being said, I guess when we, when we go national, we go after different terms, we go after it a different way.
But primarily, honestly, we're focused on helping our clients pick locations that they can have a stronger impact on locally, even sometimes city wise.
Right now we're working with a client that she is the only type of business in her, She's a physical therapist. She's the only physical therapist in that, in her city and she's kind of showing up in SEO and I was like, no, we're going to help you dominate this. You should be like the first top five results. Because it doesn't really make sense that these other results are coming up And I know that that's going to be kind of an easy, an easy, you know, an easy project for us because she should be showing up there. So I think that sometimes the challenge is if you don't have the budget on that national level, it's sort of like, should you be the first person to show up there? There might be someone, a bigger fish out there that just should be showing higher than you. And it's really hard when somebody else should be showing higher than you to get yourself there if you shouldn't be. If that makes sense.
[00:13:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's something my friend Matt Brooks at SEO Tarek said of, you know, there's an inherent falseness to fronting in brand, in marketing as you have to put forward a face of you are something, even if you may not actually be that, but then you will never be that unless you say that you are. So you have to put the self fulfilling prophecy into play because if you never put the words onto your marketing site that you're, you know, don't be evil.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: Aspiration. Yeah, yeah, yes.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: If you don't put on your site don't be evil as your mission statement, you might end up being evil. So you got to put, put your mission statement out there and then prove it to the people that you are living that out through your reviews, you know, follow through on the service side and the fulfillment and then you know, find opportunities in your marketing strategy to echo, reinforce that truth that you, yeah, you do, you do do good work. Here's proof, people said it. Here's four or five articles Google that I'm linked from that say that I am this person. Verify your identity that you are. And you know, that's where those organic fruits and rankings come from.
[00:15:06] Speaker B: Yes, it's something that happens naturally, like people not naturally. It's thoughtful, but it's something that happens through actually living it and not just trying to get there. It used to be possible to get there, you know, 20 years ago when you were just playing these algorithm games with these keywords. And I think sometimes businesses that haven't really taken it seriously since way back then sometimes still think that's possible. And it's like it's not, it's not the same ball game that we're playing. It's gotten so much more sophisticated and I think hopefully with AI we'll get better and more sophisticated yet. But obviously that remains to be seen since we're still kind of in this growth stage with that.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: I have here a soapbox. I would put it in front of you for you to step up and stand on the soapbox and tell small business owners one thing that you think that they should change right now in their business.
[00:16:04] Speaker B: Stop thinking about marketing as a to do list and start thinking about it as a process.
So a lot of people approach marketing as like this list of stuff they had to get done. Like, I've got to get 12 social media posts, I've got to get two emails out the door. I've got all these things I have to do.
But you don't have to be doing everything to find success. What you need to be doing is thinking about it. Sorry, my life's up.
Should unplug that.
So what was I, was I saying? Yes, you need to be thinking about it as a process. Like marketing truly is an important process in your business of bringing in and converting leads. And in order to improve that process, right, you need to have a plan for what you think is going to work, implement that plan measure to see how it works, and then you go back through that process again. Right? We create a plan, another plan where we try to improve upon what we just did. So if you kind of treat that as a process that's going on in your business, not just this to do list, you're going to find that you have more success in the long run.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: I think that's as true if you applied that to your personal life. You know, having a process for, you know, getting up and exercising. Have a process for, you know, going and taking a karate class and getting your kids there on time as opposed to, oh, I need to check this off. And then that just leads to, okay, did I actually check the list this time? And it just gets left behind. So I think building that, and it really should be a business process that you're paying someone within your organization to pay attention to or, you know, paying yourself to pay attention to that.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Because I, I feel like a lot of businesses, only especially small businesses, the smaller they are, they tend to fit in this bucket where they only think about their marketing when things are slow.
And then so it ends up with this feast and famine thing that they can't. It's, it's gotta be consistent. It's gotta be a healthy part of your business going forward. Because if it's not, you know, your business is going to, is going to cease to exist after a certain period of time if you're not paying attention to that system.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: What was one of the most dire straits or the most challenging scenario that one of your clients was in that you contributed hopefully to them landing that plane or climbing that mountain.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Okay, let me think about that. So I don't know if this is a gyre straight, but it's a. We had a client that had been running these events. They were doing dog training events. Um, so in person they were giving demos of their dog training and they had done this event and they had 10 people show up and do this demo with them.
And they all seemed really, really excited about doing this dog training activity with them. But only one of them ended up converting.
And so they ended up kind of being that that experience did not end up turning a profit for them and they were feeling frustrated.
So what we did was we looked at what was happening and said, something here is working, right? We got that one person to convert. People seemed excited in the moment.
So we talked to them about, how about you don't let people. They were letting people walk away with a flyer and a QR code to go home and sign up.
So instead we said, let's get them to commit in person.
So at the next event they had roughly 10 people show up, do the same thing, but they ended up converting eight of them.
So that ended up making their ROI much higher and that ended up making it a sustainable marketing channel for their business going forward.
Something that they could see doing rinse and repeat. Right. And work to improve.
So they also ended up upselling them afterwards and letting them know that they also did dog walking, they also did dog care.
And so that kind of helped them again, treat that marketing system as a. Treat marketing as a system, as a process and not just be jumping from activity to activity.
I don't know if they were in dire straits necessarily, but they were struggling and they're doing better now. And I actually have a call with them later this week to kind of see what else we can do to help them grow. So, yeah, that was a really fun one.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: I love that example because again, it's another IRL in real world scenario where you're looking at what's the actual process here.
I think a lot of SEOs are guilty of this. I certainly was in my early career of not fully exploring the business model side of the clients. You know, and again, you mentioned it several times of, hey, you could focus on keywords, you could pull up semrush, look at the volumes and predict, oh, hey, these are the terms. I'll create this blog post, optimize that page and forget, oh, you know what, I need to interview this client to find out their unique selling proposition. You Know, I need to understand, you know, which of these seven services actually has the highest profit margin? And is the one with the highest profit margin even the one that they actually want to grow? Or is that profit margin a trade off because it's such a pita to, to get those clients or to fulfill it, or this vendor is, you know, you know, they're phasing out. So there's so many of these varia variables. And I do recall a couple of consulting scenarios.
I think it was at an agency I was working at where we came back and we doubled the number of leads. We were like, bringing it as a victory. Hey, we did SEO. We got this boost in traffic and rankings and we got more leads than ever. And sales is like, this has been the most dismal quarter of the past two years. We have made a quarter of the sales of the previous. Whatever you did, stop it. I'm like, okay, we need to find an alignment here. And like, oh, well, they're way higher up in the conversion process and they were talking to somebody who was trying to hard close, you know, and so it was a total mismatch. They're like, oh, you know, I kind of want to have a date. And they're like, let's get married forever.
[00:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. That's what with our clients, we meet with them two times a month. Because I feel like when I earlier on in my agency life, building my own agency, we didn't do that.
And that disconnect often ended up, I mean, if the client's not making money from your efforts, right, they're not going to be able to afford you even if they think you're doing a fabulous job. So you need to understand, unfortunately, and sometimes guide them like, you know, the horse to the water and tell them, hey, I, you know, I can see I sent you, for example, I sent you 10 leads, but you haven't followed up with any of them.
All those kinds of little disconnects that can happen that can help your, that can make your efforts and your good work go to waste because there's not, there's that missing, like you said, the missing communication piece.
[00:22:58] Speaker A: It is interesting just to think about the business model of a marketing agency because, you know, we have a select percentage. Usually businesses have to decide, you know, how much of the profit that do they make, are they going to sacrifice to try to make more profit next time. You know, the farmer deciding how much of his crop to turn into seeds for the next time around.
And sometimes as professionals in marketing, that could Be a hard lesson to learn and try to appreciate. Okay, well, what is the, you know, out of what they're selling, how are they paying me and you know, am I making this sustainable for them and sometimes trying to get them out of their own way so they can make more so that they can pay, continue to pay you?
[00:23:54] Speaker B: My gosh. I feel like that's the biggest challenge as working with a small business community is understanding, like getting access to the information you need to guide them correctly, if that makes sense sometimes, especially if they're doing kind of what you said. I was thinking about it earlier. You said, you know, often in marketing we put a face of what we want to be, not where we are. And it's like with your marketing agency, you need to be really honest about where you are.
Because if you're giving me information about where you want to be, I'm going to give you different advice than if I, if I know where you are today.
And that, that piece of it can be so challenging. I mean, we've had clients that came to us saying they wanted a, you know, reasonable sort of growth and then we find out that they have like what, 10%, a quarter or something like that. Then we find out they actually have zero sales. So we're like, okay, that's a different, different marketing challenge. Right.
So it's, it's sort of like building that trust so that they're willing to share and be honest with you about what's going on in their business. Like, we're not here to judge, we're here to help. You know, but so often I think business owners have imposter syndrome or we want to be at a better spot than we are actually in. But the more honest you are with your marketing agency, the better results you're going to get.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: That's true. And it's also, you know, a self deception thing of the more honest you are with yourself about where your business is, the more likely you are. But that's, you know, that's again echoing in our personal lives. We, if we're more honest with ourselves about where we are with things, we could probably progress better.
But ego, ego always plays a role.
What are some of the challenges that you've had when it comes to, let's say, strong egos or very powerful opinions or clients who hire you to not listen to your advice?
[00:26:02] Speaker B: That's always fun when you're like, you should be doing X that they're like, okay, that's interesting. And you tell them why and then they go, but we're going to do Y. It's like, well, so. Oh, I think I just lost you on my headphones here. Or did you mute? Oh, you muted. Okay. I just panicked.
Oh, what was I saying?
We were talking about the fact that. Oh, ego. Yes.
You know, we've had. We've had clients that, that, like, for instance, there was one client that kept trying to take over the SEO piece of things and was really, really. And kept messing up what we were doing and was really, really excited when he got ranked number one for the term elderly.
And we were like, that's completely useless to you at a business level. Right.
Like, that's not going to get you. I don't even know who's searching for the word elderly, but they are certainly not looking for your services.
So for us, it's a lot of trying really hard to be educational, like, educate them on what's going on. Trying really hard to build that trust.
And I think we just try really hard to be honest, even if we're going to say, okay, fine, we'll do it your way, but we'll be like, here's the reasons why this concerns us. X, Y, Z.
So, but hopefully if they see that look, that was the end result, that maybe you should listen to us the second time.
Unfortunately for some clients, it's like if you're so small and your budget's small, sometimes that second time doesn't exist. So I do. I would say that if you're a small business owner and you're hiring a marketing person, you know, there's kind of two different kinds of marketing people you can really hire, which is skilled help. So that's the kind of help that's like somebody who's like a website developer. They know how to code. There's somebody who knows how to like, copyright, you know, somebody knows how to do graphic design. Right. And those people, you have to give them specific direction about the strategy piece of it. Right. So it's really important that you understand that if you tell them to build a website about xyz, they're just going to build that website about xyz, whether or not they think it's good, because that's not really their job. Right. And then there are some agencies that will help you with. With both. Right. So it's like that strategic and that skills. It's actually three really. Well, they'll help you, give you advice. You've got people there who have got strategy expertise, who know a specific channel, that kind of thing. And you're going to pay more money for that kind of help than for that skills help typically.
So take advantage of it. If you are paying for the kind of somebody who's an expert either in marketing in general or in a specific marketing channel, they want to see you succeed. So, like, listen to them.
Let them help you. Ask questions. Ask questions to give them information. But like, listen.
[00:28:42] Speaker A: Yeah. My example around that was a company that they invented a space cooler instead of a space heater, and they wanted to rank for space cooler and insisted that portable evaporative coolers and swamp coolers. They're not a swamp cooler. That's what Grandpa Joe has in it. And it.
Or trailer. We're not trailer. A trailer product.
Adamant. Adamant. Okay, well, okay. We ranked for space cooler after six months. And as we had warned, there is no search volume for space cooler.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: Space cooler because nobody knows it exists.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: It's not a thing. Like, yes, you're disrupting the market. And that's a cool way to describe what it is that you do. But people don't know about it. People are searching for portable evaporative cooler. Swamp cooler. If you can offer a. If you want to say, oppositionally, we're not your grandpa's swamp cooler, we're a space cooler. Do that. Cool. Do that.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: But you still need to rank for the terms people are searching for.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. You need to say the thing.
Say the word.
[00:29:49] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:29:50] Speaker A: It seems. What is it? Maybe you can answer this. Why is it that salespeople don't like to say what it is that you actually do as a business?
If a salesperson has made a website for a client 99 times out of 100, it's, we're excellent at customer service, we deliver, we'll be there. We're your friend.
All of these meaningless phrases. But they never said hvac in Cookeville.
[00:30:19] Speaker B: Yeah, like we build houses or whatever. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I think honestly, it's just because it's two separate skill sets. Right. Like, I'm not a good salesperson.
You know, I. I know marketing and marketing. You know, I think marketing is a broader umbrella where sales lives underneath it.
It's one of the pieces that helps us. Right. Bring it in, convert leads.
But I feel like it's its own specific skill set, and I think it doesn't necessarily translate to websites. I also think it's interesting how often people are uncomfortable sharing their pricing. And sometimes it's understandable.
Sometimes I'm like, you're just going to prevent someone from. Because they're going to be afraid to call you and find out that it's too much money for them and they'll be embarrassed. Right. So like just at least if we can get them some kind of sense of the pricing range, that can help them get over that hesitation to make a phone call or to oh, my
[00:31:11] Speaker A: competitors are going find out my pricing. Like, bro, they're putting in fake leads anyways to find out your pricing.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: Like, I guarantee there's no. Yes, yes, 100%. If they wanted to find it out, they would find it out
[00:31:26] Speaker A: like that. That was like a scenario, my friend, a door site. And he's like, yeah, these four leads. Yeah, that's this door company, that door company and this door company.
I gave them totally incorrect information and that we watched them jack up their prices and we undercut them and they dropped their prices.
[00:31:50] Speaker B: Talk about a marketing strategy. That's awesome.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Yeah, we knew we had the inside line. We told them inflated prices, they jacked theirs up and we cut in the margin. It was awesome.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: That's awesome. That's a really cool story. That's definitely not a marketing strategy we've tried before. I'm like, interesting.
[00:32:12] Speaker A: So as kind of closing out here, what's some low hanging fruit that's always on the tree when a new client comes a knock in and you're like, goop, bloop, bloop. I can do this super easy. Let's knock it out tomorrow before you move on to the hard stuff.
[00:32:30] Speaker B: So I say existing clients, existing customers. Usually people are just not taking advantage of the people who they've already gotten. You know that marketing funnel, They've got them all the way down to the conversion. They've made that conversion and then it just stops the relationship. So usually there's some kind of low hanging fruit in there that we can seize onto and get them a little bit of money coming in the door that way.
Typically that takes the form of email. A lot of them are not making use of email.
It could be SMS messaging, it could be, you know, doing retargeting. It could be a lot of different things. It depends on the clients. But I say that a lot of small businesses don't really think about the importance of staying connected to those previous customers. Previous clients, whatever. They're doing that nine times out of 10. That's where the easy wins are.
[00:33:23] Speaker A: Absolutely love that. Thank you so much for your time.
And give a shout out again to your company name and if you're doing any promotion or have any resources that you'd like people to check out.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: Sure. So WR Digital Marketing WR digitalmarketing.com if you go to wrdigitalmarketing.com SMB we actually have a bunch of free resources because I do a lot of education for a local CDFI here. So I kind of developed a little toolkit there that has a lot of information on building out a marketing strategy, which is really important to do before you actually start marketing to make sure you understand why you're doing different things. So there's that ton of information in there that you can check out for free.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: Fantastic. Thank you so much.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: Thank you. This is great.
